General Discussion and Updates

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:50 pm

And after reflecting on this old argument some more, I realize this is a prime example of what is going on today in society. We have political correctness on one side ( the Left) which perpetuates herd control on those who have valid criticism on existing problems and so the Left are quick to label people thus fostering the real haters on the other side ( the Right)  to come out of the woodwork and show their hateful colors. In the meanwhile, real debate is stifled. Real criticism or observations or solutions become mute leading us to stat -ism.

For example, if I say I am against reparations for black people, I am immediately labelled a racist by many on the left. However the reason I am against it is because I don't see an end to the disenfranchised groups in society. I see women, gays, native Americans, Japanese, transgender, and all the other groups that have been historically deprived and had their rights violated . I also recognize that giving one group reparations will lead towards resentment among other disenfranchised groups. What a perfect divide and conquer that would lead to.

I draw a paralegal in that my stance in that  victims fighting back have a better chance of stopping abuse and that we must change our culture of silence and complicity and focus on empowering victims rather than giving them victim hood status through the culture of settlement agreements with gag orders!
Many of the women that have come out said they REGRETTED signing settlement agreements with gag orders!!! Why do you think that is? Because deep down, people want to see justice and have the perps exposed!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:40 pm

Frankly being objective as I can, I think Maria has tried very hard resolve the conflicts over delivery and substance. I also agree that Europeans tend to be much more blunt in their delivery, but no offense at all intended, the Dutch are the worst about that. At the same time, culturally they are reasonable about owning up to keeping their side of the street clean. For example, a German will push and argue about their seat on a train, and never give up. A Dutch person will start out arguing and then concede if it is nor their assigned seat etc. I have observed that scenario over and over. Not trying to stereotype but I guess I am.

I think it would be best to move on.

James. Happy Birthday

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:51 pm

Yes James, FB told me so. I hope it's a good day full of lots of hugs, presents and special treats.
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:20 pm

When our legal system stops re-victimizing victims, more will come forward. When accusations are investigated rather than doubted, more will come forward. I know how the system works. This is why I didn't step forward for any of the three rapes I survived. None were violent. One was a pedophile, the other two caught me in a "safe" place with nefarious intentions (visiting friends for a party where I drank too much and was raped). I'm NOT to blame for any of them. What I wore, what I drank, where I was should NOT be a party to any of it. I never pressed any charges because I know they system would rape me again, over and over again.

As for domestic abuse, fighting back can end you up dead. Leaving is not possible due to finances. If you've never lived in a shelter, your opinion is of little value to me. I have lived in shelters. They are not safe. They are not humane. They offer a place to sleep (not a safe on most times) and sometimes a meal and access to shower facilities. There is often violence, theft and abuse by attendees as well as staff.

It takes a lot of planning and stealth to leave some domestic abuse situations. I'm blessed now to be in a mostly healthy relationship. When you're with a controlling, overbearing, manipulator you're kept off-balance and often without funds or freedom. Not everyone has a place to go or people to call because this abuser has isolated them from everyone. That's why isolation is one of the top red flags to identify an abuser. To outsiders they appear to be a doting, loving companion. Perhaps a little clingy or overbearing. But often, normal-appearing.

Fighting back, can end you up dead. So yes, I take exception to your wording on that issue. The phraseology used is offensive and dismissive to those of us who are now thriving away from our abuses. To be clear I know you do not mean it that way but that is how it comes across.
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:24 pm

Not saying I am en expert, but I deal with a lot of DV issues and spend a lot of time in DV court. Those leaving the abusive relationships have to get over the mental hurdle and leave. There are endless excuses for not leaving. I have had everything set up to serve the abusive spouse with injunctions and remove them from the home, and sometimes these women just won’t get out, and they come up with every reason in the book to justify it.

On the other hand, I have had numerous women successfully leave abusive relationships and get divorced. It was hard at first but the mental hurdles such as money turned out not to be insurmountable once they made the commitment to leave.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:02 pm

Dee "Fighting back, can end you up dead. So yes, I take exception to your wording on that issue. The phraseology used is offensive and dismissive to those of us who are now thriving away from our abuses. To be clear I know you do not mean it that way but that is how it comes across'


Copy and paste my offensive wording pluheeze!!!!

Because quite frankly, I have no clue what you are talking about? The words 'damaged goods' are Jae's vocabulary!!

I have been loud and clear where I stand. I have said over and over again that we as a society have to change the environment how we deal with perpetrators and pave the way for victims so they DO dare to come forward.  How does  anything I posted AGAIN have anything to do with what you are claiming?

Show me my offensive words!


Last edited by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:09 pm

Again, I don't need a lecture on domestic violence. As I said before and I have brought this up years ago as well, my parents marriage had domestic violence and my mother ran away with the two of us. She did have to plan to leave and I know all the difficulties and hurdles and am painfully familiar with it all.
Of course my dad was remorseful when he found out my mom had left and than the custody battle and years of stupid stuff went back and forth and so forth.

However my mother turned her hardship into action and activism and started safe houses for battered women and their children. The first ones in the Netherlands.

Nobody, including me has claimed;

1: that a victim must step forward
2) that a victim must risk death
3) that a victim must fight

to the contrary I have said that s o c i e t y MUST pave the way for women to feel safe and comfortable to step forward and fight this shite and as the 'Me Too' campaign clearly indicates, many women REGRET they signed a settlement with gag order and rather would have seen justice.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:46 pm

this is what I said "I draw a paralegal in that my stance in that victims fighting back have a better chance of stopping abuse and that we must change our culture of silence and complicity and focus on empowering victims rather than giving them victim hood status through the culture of settlement agreements with gag orders!
Many of the women that have come out said they REGRETTED signing settlement agreements with gag orders!!! Why do you think that is? Because deep down, people want to see justice and have the perps exposed!'

How does that translate into this? >>> "Fighting back, can end you up dead. So yes, I take exception to your wording on that issue. The phraseology used is offensive and dismissive to those of us who are now thriving away from our abuses. To be clear I know you do not mean it that way but that is how it comes across"

Please what is so 'offensive' about what I said and where did I say that the victim must fight back?

It doesn't!


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:06 pm

Thanks for the birthday wishes, everyone. I am 36 today. To recap, ten years ago when I made my first post on QR, I was 26 and my daughter was two months old. A matter of weeks later I got into a horrible fight with that constant spammer guy who was always causing trouble and vile. I ended up closing my account but shortly before I did, Harvey discovered Laura through my friends list and started going after her for Atheism eventually leading to Laura somehow joining the group. So I ended up coming back because she got embroiled with him and blamed me for it.

It is amazing how random it all was.

I think that people in that span of time have become more vocal about speaking our against sexual violence and I think we are all in right path, but we don't seem to have a concrete plan to change it.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:59 pm

Lol, James, I had rarely used YouTube for actual comments etc and then yeah, Harvey showed up. I was so like ‘who the hell is this guy?’

Off topic, this Whitefish contract is incredulous to me.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:25 pm

Whitefish is nuts.

Does anyone ever feel men are disadvantaged in our current society because of gender stereotypes?: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Male_Power

https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2017/07/the-disposable-sex-33-reasons-it-sucks-to-be-a-man/

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:52 pm

It's too late to get into tonight, but briefly, I think as the one article clearly shows, that the gender equality debate is often one more of perceptions (often subjective), and assumptions that are damaging to people regardless of the gender. Quick example, my husband used to complain that when he had Zoe alone at the store, people made comments like "looks like your 'baby sitting' today,' which he felt was pejorative and implied he was not considered a real parent because of his gender.

My gripe, if he ever took Zoe into a public restroom to change a diaper, people would praise him. Whereas, I can change a million diapers, and I'm not going to get special kudos for it because it is expected. No one cares if a woman works round the clock, working and taking care of kids. But if a guy goes out of his way to spend time with his kids, everyone thinks he is an awesome parent...

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:36 am

I agree a lot of it is in people’s minds. A Facebook friend had posted the article. I think being a male has its own challenges which I will get into later but some of the reasons people gave were stupid.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:30 pm

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Wanted to back track in Whitefish. I think it is abhorrent, and the fact that Puerto Rico, US citizens, are being treated like expendable trash is horrible

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:18 pm

I just watched the documentary 'One of Us' on Netflix.

It is about individuals who separate from the Hasidic Jewish community.

The documentary touches on everything that is brought up on this forum.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:21 pm

I'm just going to apologize for any offense I may have made Maria. I'm soooooo sorry.

Can we please move on

I've watched a few shows and documentaries about people leaving religious groups, mostly about the fundamental Mormons but I saw one a while ago about Hasidic Jews in Israel and the bigotry they endure from other Jews.

Be back in a while. We were out late again last night so I'm just now waking up.
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:47 pm

I will take a look, Maria. Is it on Netflix or Amazon by any chance.

Glad to bear from you, Dee. Hope everyone’s weekend is going well.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:40 pm

We can move on.

I apologize to both Dee and Jae again for my posts coming across in a harsh way. I think it is more that I am frustrated of not being able to get my points across. This is not a reflection on anybody but myself.

I don't want Jae to leave this forum. I also don't want any of you to feel 'threatened' or feel I am hijacking your safe space.

I see how James wants this to work and I appreciate his efforts to keep it going.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:42 pm

Ours was OK so far. We're having cold and rainy weather. I swear I saw a few of those 4-letter-word-flakes falling. It's only 44 now so tonight is going to be pretty cold. Yayyyy (NOT) early winter.

We went out to play last night and ran into another couple of guys who were doing the same. We met up and turned all of the gyms downtown blue. The red team tried hard to take them back but had only gotten 5 back when we retook them again. It was fun to give them a dose of their own for a change without having to cheat or be nasty about it. We did pull up on them while they were fighting and make it difficult for them (without cheating) like they do to us (with cheating). Then we added another couple to the train of players and the red team gave up. We were out until after 2 am.

IDK if we're doing anything today. It seems to be weather for catching up on tv shows though.
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:49 pm

The documentary is on Netflix James.

The problems in the doc of course apply across the board and transcends religons, cultures, nations and nationalities.

It comes down to psychology and our biology as herd animals. We crave hierarchy yet we want independence within our hierarchy as well. How does the philosophy of Liberty come into place with inalienable rights being central to our society?

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:55 pm

To address your issue about men. I am sure men are being discriminated all together as well. Look at the issue of custody in divorce cases or abortion as you mentioned.

I think in the end, you cannot find a group not being discriminated against of some sort other than the few that hold all the cards and constantly divide and conquer us. I think that is why I have removed myself from identity politics.

My vote is not a 'woman's vote, not a 'white' vote, not a 'parent' vote or a 'disabled community' vote. My vote is my concision based on my life experience which probably overlaps with many other individuals who belong to different demographics. When someone else's rights are violated, so are mine. With every precedent set in law, we are all affected by default.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:57 pm

I am reading about Dee's game. I have heard about it but am clueless as to how to envision it.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:20 pm

It's called Pokemon Go Maria. It's a digital game played on the phone but the playing board is the real world. They've used GPS coordinates to erect "Gyms" where we battle to take control. There are three teams, I'm on Mystic. There are "Pokestops" where you spin and gain items to enhance your characters. There are "Pokemon" that wander around that you catch, evolve and power up to do battle in the gyms or just to collect. It started as a card game, like "Magic", and grew from there into individual hand held games, to cartoons (there are many series in the Pokemon universe) and now the augmented reality game Pokemon. People of all ages play.

Does that help?
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:23 pm

Where the imbalance for males caring for children or doing their share at home goes, we need to change our speech. Chromie doesn't "help me" cook, clean or any other chore. He does his share. He participates. It's not his chore or mine due to our gender. We all have to eat, wash, shop, mop floors, etc. When we stop applauding men for "adulting" there may be some gender balance happening. JMO YMMV (just my opinion, your mileage may vary)
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:21 pm

I actually thought the article I posted was horse shit, and right up there with the ‘white lives matter’ crowd and other reactionary crap. It sounded likma bunch of whiners, like the man whining that he was scraggly and obese and getting glares for taking the kid to the restroom. Don’t be surprised dick wad that if you
Dress and groom yourself like a homeless person, people are going to give you a weird stares. What a victim of discrimination. That must be right up there with the one on six teenage girls who are sexually assaulted every year.

I was incredulous on the abortion one (keep it in your pants or use a condemn versus being shitty enough of a human being to argue you should get to decide if a woman bears a child growing inside her body to fruition).

These guys were not whining about gender issues, they were projecting their own sexual and personal failings on women being treated ‘better’ versus taking a hard look in the mirror.

The article was laughable on every level when you look at the stats on violence and discrimination against women in workforce, legal system etc

I Posted it because I think it is an example of playing the victim.
We were talking about women who are victims of domestic violence needing to not be the victim, but I wanted to show that men did the same.

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