General Discussion and Updates

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Jae on Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:31 am

So in summation checks and balances only work if the people in the government utilize them properly, which historically they haven't, so a system at the mercy of human error is not a protected system. If checks and balances exist, but nothing forces people to utilize them or observe them, they are pointless. Thus the system is pointless. Our government system is flawed only because it has left so many holes and inconsistencies that permit the loopholes and abuses of the system. The government should be regulated by the constitution; the constitution has holes and flaws that have allowed for such corruption in government. The founding fathers were without the foresight to predict the pitfalls that would come in centuries' time, thus perhaps the constitution was not genuinely timeless and needs adjustment

The supreme court only voted in favor of gay marriage after nearly 45 states did the legwork of legalizing it themselves. They achieved no great feat and in the years of turmoil where advocates challenging the system succeeded in human rights, in the years that we went without equal rights and suffered discrimination, the government and supreme court stood by and did nothing. "Thanks for legalizing shit the majority of us already did!" That's not checks and balances, that's social revolution.

We already told you the whole getting rid of the US constitution thing was a joke to fuck with you. You just believed you were right and that we made that up because we were shamed by your intelligence, so whatever

If none of this is your viewpoint Maria, why don't you give us your opinion rather than the extensive research you hide behind and regurgitate? Maybe that would allow for more humanistic conversation

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:19 am

Clarification: I was vague in that email. I had not intended to say I have not heard of the drama across the pond. I meant I had not personally seen or talked to people (friends and family),who had seen an uptake in violence in Germany. All of us including myself hear and read a lot, but lived experience from the people on the ground counts for something in my opinion (i.e. I feel there is a lot of sensationalism going on in European politics and popular media). Our hometown is as peaceful as it always has been in Germany in terms of being exceptionally safe and free of violence. I would be far safer there than the places I currently live and work in.

On the topic of specifically gun violence though, it is hard for Europe to hold a candle to the US, and reasons for that are also going to be I think lengthy and controversial but lack of access to firearms from the statistics highlighted suggests that is a compelling reason.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:45 am

So I kind of read through all this (unfortunately just got back to the states and my internal clock woke me up: four hours ahead, lol).

I think everyone has posted solid points of views and ideas. I do think we have to as a society have dialogue where we really want to understand each other, even if we hate each other's viewpoints or believe they are deeply flawed.

If we cannot have that conversation, then we are doomed to be caught in the cross fires of the same polarized society we occupy now.

I do tend, as I stated earlier, to think pragmatism, where we try to view the constitution as a document fleshed out in terms of contemporary society while adhering to its core concepts, is the way to go. Jae, I think you are advocating for that as well, which is where the word 'timeless' could mean very different things in terms of the constitution.

There is something perverse about the level of violence in American society. I think the Europe conversation is also fairly complex, and it comes with an incredible range of hot button issues. For example, I disagree with Brexit, and think it was an ignorant decision that destabilizes Europe, UK, and rest of the world, and it was motivated by racial prejudice. That I do see in the conversation of many of the people I know in the U.K.

I also think Brits (who cringe when they are called Europeans) and the rest of Europe is incredibly racist, not conflating the huge immigration burden from Syria with the issue of their prejudice.

For example, the research shows that the Brits, French, Dutch, and Germans have been incredibly prejudiced towards certain ethnicities in the last decade. In the Netherlands from what I read when working on a research paper earlier this year, despite their plummeting crime rate, one ethnic group of black males is almost exclusively the target of arrests.

All of these countries are hypocritical, and lack a basic understanding of colonialism, and it is almost ludicrous in that regard.

This is not the link I am relying on, but it gives an easy to read overview: https://www.google.com/amp/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/01/sylvana-simons-racism-accepted-netherlands-170118095205530.html


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:23 am

Also when Merkel suspend the Dublin Regulations, she received enormous push back from the people, in large part because certain media and opportunistic politicians took advantage of fear monogering and the incredibly statistically isolated incidents of refugee violence to distort facts.

It is not fair to Malta, Italy, Greece, who have almost non existent economies to be responsible for holding all the refugees coming through.

Greek and Italians have perpetuated all kinds of violence against refugees/asylum seekers, and treated the very inhumanly by holding them in large refugee centers with horrendous conditions.

So this result is the influx of border jumping in violation of the Dublin regulations and illegal immigration into the more prosperous Western European countries, which angers a huge chunk of those populations.

If Europeans let Merkel (who is 200 times the leader Trump is not capable of being) do her job and make reasonable accommodations , we'd been in a very different situation, and I still have faith she may use her fourth term to salvage the Brexit situation if at all possible.

Meanwhile, UK, France, Netherlands want to balk at having to share in the burden under the EU and are happy forcing it on the much poorer countries like Greece, who are mandated to process them based on proximity of geographical location.

Oh, and then we have the uber offender--the US, who could absorb countless refugees easily but refuses. So any time I look at Europe, the US still ends up being the worse offender in this context.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:28 am

Also just to clear up confusion, it is not refugees responsible for the acid attacks. Gang violence and teens are. I am sure Brexit will help
the U.K. solve their social ills and prevent these attacks from increasing (sarcasm alert).

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/08/06/541209398/acid-attacks-on-the-rise-in-the-u-k

Here is a good article on Brexit and race/'immigration crises.'


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:16 am

Anyway, I enjoyed reading everyone's posts. Good topics.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:19 am

That was a spirited exchange. I don't really know where to start in responding.

Yes, the UK has its problems for sure. I agree that Brexit was largely illogical, and that stresses me out, as it does destabilize the world further.

Is there a justification for the rise of the alt right in Europe? Are they not lumping together huge swaths of people from Eastern European immigrants to refugees to Africans?

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:37 am

Spain seems on the brink of civil war, FYI.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:41 am

I am more of a question person when it comes to these issues, but, Maria, how would you feel if God forbid one of your children were victims of a school shooting like Sandy Hook? A fifth grader brought a handgun to school last year at my daughter's school, and it was found loaded in his locker. He had said he was going to shoot my daughter's friend, and one of the kids reported it leading to the locker search.

That about sent me over the edge, and although the kid was suspended, I pulled my daughter from the school.

What kind of society are we living in? Can more constitutionally be done and should it, Maria and everyone else?


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:42 am

Laura how was Iceland?

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:54 pm

"So in summation checks and balances only work if the people in the government utilize them properly, which historically they haven't, so a system at the mercy of human error is not a protected system. If checks and balances exist, but nothing forces people to utilize them or observe them, they are pointless"


And when the response is to dish the Constitution and not even grasping the basics, we have arrived at what exactly Jae?
Not only did you not grasp that Gay Marriage INDEED was remedied through the system of Checks and Balances (the Supreme Court) but you were under the impression your 'inalienable rights' come from Government as you said your rights 'were taken away' instead of violated. If your rights  come from you, how is anybody to ever take them away other than violating them?

And this is the problem. The Constitutional illiteracy that is rampant in American culture today. If people only understood their rights, would they mobilize more effectively. But if people want to demand their rights come from Government instead , rather than claiming their inalienable rights, go ahead. As you pointed out yourself, humans continue to want to dictate what their neighbor does in the bedroom or with their body!


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:04 pm

"The government should be regulated by the constitution; the constitution has holes and flaws that have allowed for such corruption in government. The founding fathers were without the foresight to predict the pitfalls that would come in centuries' time, thus perhaps the constitution was not genuinely timeless and needs adjustment"

Again, you keep conflating the Govt of We the People with the US Constitution which is a set of principles to guide the Govt and which Govt is to uphold and protect.

The US Constitution started out with a Bill of Rights ( the First Ten Amendments) and the Tenth Amendment clearly gives We the People the inalienable right to legislate and create laws to regulate our societies and create positive, negative rights etc.

The US Constitution also gives We the People the right through Article V of the US Constitution to Amend the Constitution and call for a Constitutional Convention of States, which has happened 33 times and which was successfully amended 27 times!
Every single time the Constitution was amended, it was amended to EXPAND rights, NOT to restrict them!

So when we talk about the system of checks and balances, IT WORKS! It is NOT the system itself that is flawed. It is the people that are to implement it! And since this Constitution has been the longest to survive TODAY, something is WORKING!

But again, it does demand you understand the basic workings of the Constitution and so far, I am stunned at your lack thereof!


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:08 pm

"The supreme court only voted in favor of gay marriage after nearly 45 states did the legwork of legalizing it themselves. They achieved no great feat and in the years of turmoil where advocates challenging the system succeeded in human rights, in the years that we went without equal rights and suffered discrimination, the government and supreme court stood by and did nothing. "Thanks for legalizing shit the majority of us already did!" That's not checks and balances, that's social revolution"

AGAIN, you don't understand how the legal system and the check and balance system WORKS!

UNLESS a case is brought in front of the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court CANNOT go out and seek cases. They HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL someone challenges the Constitutionality of a certain issue AND BRINGS IT IN FRONT OF THEIR COURT!!!!!!
AGAIN, your ignorance to the very process you are supposed to know and fight for, is stunning!!!!!!!!


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:10 pm

"We already told you the whole getting rid of the US constitution thing was a joke to fuck with you. You just believed you were right and that we made that up because we were shamed by your intelligence, so whatever"

Thanks for admitting the childishness. James had been bugging me for months to come and post here but since we are at it, this was NO joke! You really ARE illiterate on the US Constitution and you have no idea what you are wishing for!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:15 pm

'If none of this is your viewpoint Maria, why don't you give us your opinion rather than the extensive research you hide behind and regurgitate? Maybe that would allow for more humanistic conversation"

Why do you get to decide what I post? I personally believe that being informed comes first and foremost! As you have proven, you are screaming to get rid of the US Constitution, which you constantly interchange with Govt as if they are mutually exclusive,obviously believe it is outdated, yet you have no clue about the basics and you dish it like it is some simple document when nothing could be further from the truth.

you want to talk Human Rights? Well I got news for you. They are also rooted in Natural Rights Law, just like the Constitution.
You can't have your cake and eat it too! You can't demand you want your rights to come from Govt and dish inalienable rights but when Govt and society decide you can't be gay, you suddenly blame the system. Either you have inalienable rights and you fight for them or you don't and surrender to the whim of your neighbor!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:19 pm

I do agree with Laura. Hand guns are the majority of guns that cause deaths and I don't see handguns being outlawed any time soon.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:29 pm

As for Europe, there are so many alarming reports.

Main cause in my opinion. The Corporatist EU took not only purchasing power when implementing the Euro but it took away voting power from local populations.

With open borders, it has created a huge influx which cannot be sustained. European culture is dealing with gentrification so it did need immigration but it has turned into a huge flood into Europe that is now giving rise to all kinds of extremism on all sides of the spectrum.

Never underestimate human behavior! And never underestimate the flow of money!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:32 pm

" Maria, how would you feel if God forbid one of your children were victims of a school shooting like Sandy Hook? A fifth grader brought a handgun to school last year at my daughter's school, and it was found loaded in his locker. He had said he was going to shoot my daughter's friend, and one of the kids reported it leading to the locker search'

What does this have anything to do with what I posted? What is this question based on James?


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:48 pm

"But Maria are there not a myriad of legal scholars who debate these issues? How are you saying you particular point of view is fact?"

I was talking about this>>>

The Second Amendment applies to every single citizen, either working in/for Govt and those that are not!

That is legal fact James and I doubt there is a legal scholar denying this Wink

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:49 pm

Did you just delete the reply James?

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:53 pm

Again, I notice how people are not reading what I am saying.

I debunked a bunch of myths that go around on the Left side of the spectrum as to clarify the proper purpose and wording of the Second Amendment.
(regarding the word 'regulated' pertaining the well functioning of the Militia and firearms, who historical supplied the weapons for the Militia, , the Second Amendment applying to everybody including those in Govt, and that the real purpose of the Second is to fight off  tyrannical govt and/or foreign invasion as well and that is serves again as a check and balance measure giving the power to the People as to just Govt) as to not fall into those traps of arguments! ( these can all be found at the UCLA Law Second Amendment Center.

I also clarified that the Tenth Amendment clearly gives We the People legislative power to control guns.

These are basic constitutional understandings that are not the subjects for scholars'.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:30 pm

Here is John Pilger interviewing Julian Assange as to explain the deeper connections to the current problems in Europe and globally and how we have arrived where we are today internationally.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:35 pm

And more explanations as to how we arrived at Brexit.

How the Establishment has ignored the warning signs.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:55 pm

Nope I did not delete anyone's post. I have lost posts before though. It is very annoying.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:58 pm

Here was my question, Maria:

No parent should ever have to go through what the parents in Sandy Hook went through. If you had lost a child to gun violence, and wanted to see more effective gun control, what if anything would you advocate for and believe to be consistent with the Second Amendment?

I am not arguing repealing the Second amendment, but saying what can be done constitutionally to make gun ownership safer.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

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