General Discussion and Updates

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Mon May 07, 2018 10:33 pm

DutchessMaria wrote:Dee, you called me 'cunt' before I even engaged here with you on the topic I introduced. I called you lazy because you keep claiming you don't want to discuss but you sure want to argue and not at all address any component from what i posted.

As for your last diatribe. I did hit the nail on the head. You have problems and you take them out on me! Stop calling people 'cunt' when they have done nothing to you or take responsibility for your actions.

As for a good deed, it never goes unpunished. I sent you money at a time I didn't have money to spend on myself yet at the time you had the gals to ask for more. I didn't have more or I would probably have sent it. But let it sink in lady. You are my exact age and your life is a mess and it is you who has been telling us all about it. Take responsibility for crying out loud!

I never asked you for a god damned thing. Now you're just lying. Bald faced lying. Go play the martyr. It sits well on you. I'm absolutely done with your bullshit. Go peddle it elsewhere.

EDIT:
I went through the emails between us when you offered to help us out. It was $100 that was to help with getting a visa extension or get me home. After a lot of back and forth my parents did pay my way back to them in NJ (although I didn't see my father) and then back to MI. I did thank you. You said it was a gift after I told you I didn't know how I'd pay it back. ... again you offered. I never should have said yes.

As for taking responsibility for my life - I DO THAT EVERY FRIGGING DAY! Who the hell do you think you are to attempt to lecture me?
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:20 am

Who am I?

The woman you called a 'cunt' on this forum for no apparent reason!

Get a life!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:23 am

Oh wait, who am I?

The woman who copied and pasted your source to make my point!

That is why you called me a 'cunt'!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Jae on Tue May 08, 2018 1:39 am

DutchessMaria wrote:

Maybe Jae should come back and replace me

Gladly, now get the fuck out.

You're certifiable Maria, genuinely. People are tired of you. Do you alienate people in your real life the way you do online? Are your personal relationships this hostile? I honestly was not going to get involved until I saw the extremely personal attack on Dee, reducing yourself to pathetic ad homs yet again, your last defense when you have nothing else to throw. Your confirmation bias is obscene, your healthy communication is non-existent, and your baseless ego could fill the western hemisphere.

Why do you stay here if everyone is so blind, deaf, and stupid? Do you get off on talking down to people and degrading them? Does it give you a hard-on?

Get out. Just get the fuck out.

Y'all call me when she's gone.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by laurav on Tue May 08, 2018 1:51 am

Well, at this point as far as my history of involvement, there is a clear record of posts since last summer where I attempted unsuccessfully to have dialogue with you Maria and to clarify your positions. When it came to legal theory, I found it somewhat shocking that you had such a reductionist and overly simplified viewpoint of natural versus positive rights. That's not an insult. By reductionist, you had taken the complexity away from the topic and reduced it to a rigid distinction that ignored all jurisprudence on the topic.

It at the time felt impossible to get any of my points home, and I even devoted an entire topic to trying to clarify the terms and theories. What I got for my efforts, was a barrage of straw man arguments where you don't respond to what arguments I made and ascribe viewpoints to me that I don't hold.

That is the classic definition of strawman fallacy if you look up the definition.

You even jumped ship to the positive versus natural rights topic and again ascribed a false position that I repeatedly clarified last year (that I want or prefer positive rights only).

You have done the exact same thing to Jae when you kept saying Jae prefers her rights to be given to her and lacks a basic understanding of LGBT rights under the constitution. I believe you also told me 'to get my butt back to law school.' And this is all in the record and I did start reviewing it.

A member's posting history can be pulled. And the stuff from last year has been archived and locked, so no one can delete. Read my posts, and I challenge you to find where I insulted you. But you were quite rude to me, and continued to be disparaging and make straw man fallacies regarding my posts.

I let it go. It was not worth wasting time and energy holding a grudge over, and I even tried to defend your tendency towards aggressive and disparaging posts by suggesting cultural misunderstanding  when Jae confronted you.

With the vaccine 'debate,' it was never a debate. You engaged from the gitgo in a rapid fire series of posts with random articles and straw man fallacies as well as unresponsive posts and arguments.

Contrary to what you gave alleged, based on the written record, I have not insulted nor attacked you personally. On the other hand, you continue to be derisive and condescending to me as well as engage in a sort of delusional thinking where your posts are automatically, without any fact checking, accurate and refute all my or James' claims.

So you make it impossible to engage you because you never respond to the actual content of our posts but instead launch into non responsive tangents, distort what's actually said, and then declare victory. It's very disingenuous and frustrating for the people involved on the other side.

Again, despite the claims in your most recent posts that we all simply cannot stand the intellectual rigor of your posts, the history of posts is clear that up until Dee's post, no one had insulted you. Now, I did not read what Dee said but she's been fairly clear what it was. I don't agree nor support use of that term. However, stating that your posts are offensive and lacking in evidentiary value, often suggestive of some entrenchment in opposition to the known facts, is not insulting nor bullying you.

Specious and fallacious arguments that are specious and fallacious deserve to be labeled as such. Implying that Andrew Wakfield was stripped of his credentials because the Brits don't have free speech, for example, leaves me incredulous.

As I stated last week, despite my desire for the truth to prevail, I also recognize that you have shown no indication of revising or retracting any of your views on the vaccine, or to date, anything we have discussed. To continue to go down this path is a futile endeavour. Further, things appear to be devolving. Therefore, I am withdrawing from participation in this 'exchange.'

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:49 pm

Laura "Well, at this point as far as my history of involvement, there is a clear record of posts since last summer where I attempted unsuccessfully to have dialogue with you Maria and to clarify your positions. When it came to legal theory, I found it somewhat shocking that you had such a reductionist and overly simplified viewpoint of natural versus positive rights. That's not an insult. By reducotnist, you had taken the complexity away from the topic and reduced it to a rigid distinction that ignored all jurisprudence on the topic'

Laura, the Natural Rights Law versus Posititive Rights theory is playing out with Jordan Peterson and Lindsey Shepard right now in Canada involving Freedom of Speech and Science. Anybody can research this on their own. My conclusion and that of many Freedom of Speech advocates is that this is paving the way towards tyranny. That road to Tyranny can be exploited by anybody with a religious or political agenda. I hope you come to your senses and start delving in this very concerning topic because the West is on the decline as we know it and so are the rights of everybody as we know it! In my camp are the likes of Sam Harris and Ayaan Hishi Ali!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:52 pm

Jae, child, get a grip on your emotional drivel!

Your anger is geared towards anybody that does not buy it! Your and Dee's emotional state are your own responsibility. Not mine. I feel for your situation but it is not my doing that has brought you to this level of childish behavior.

Good bye!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:56 pm

Laura "It at the time felt impossible to get any of my points home, and I even devoted an entire topic to trying to clarify the terms and theories. What I got for my efforts, was a barrage of straw man arguments where you don't respond to what arguments I made and ascribe viewpoints to me that I don't hold.
That is the classic definition of strawman fallacy if you look up the definition.
You even jumped ship to the positive versus natural rights topic and again ascribed a false position that I repeatedly clarified last year (that I want or prefer positive rights only)"

Laura, according to James it was you and Jae that wanted to 'fuck' with me during a serious exchange. You wanted to 'fuck' with me because your theories don't add up. The Peterson affair with Freedom of Speech and Science in Canada is a prime example of what the outcome would have been based on what you were defending at the time. Neo Marxism/Post modernism is alive and well and it is infecting universities all over the West!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm

Laura "You have done the exact same thing to Jae when you kept saying Jae prefers her rights to be given to her and lacks a basic understanding of LGBT rights under the constitution. I believe you also told me 'to get my butt back to law school.' And this is all in the record and I did start reviewing it'

Jae's lack of understanding based on her replies was very obvious! Yet it was her to wanted to 'fuck' with me on this topic!

Take responsibility!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Laura "With the vaccine 'debate,' it was never a debate. You engaged from the gitgo in a rapid fire series of posts with random articles and straw man fallacies as well as unresponsive posts and arguments"


I was very clear that the vaccine debate was distorted and that it was NOT about the actual vaccination method. It works. Let me point out to you that two of my children where babies/toddler during this time and that many parents were suddenly confronted with unknowns. My children have been fully vaccinated and continue to be vaccinated because of my own judgements on this topic. HOWEVER, the arrogant attitude by James's posting about anybody without a science degree or the labelling of myself of being a Trumpster, was highly inappropriate in light of the fact, it was the SCIENCE community in conjunction with the Media that created the vaccination scare!!!!!! My focus was on Free Speech, the free flow of information of anybody that could either contribute, comment, question etc in the public sphere, to be necessary because the danger of having access to bad science ( a really big threat according to James) PALES in comparison to stifling dissent, debate and counter arguments to scientific findings that debunked the original claims. As we know science is greatly subject to all kinds of circumstances and parameters and we still have many unanswered questions AND NO study that addresses the specifics of those parents who observed drastic changes after the MMR vaccination, has been conducted AS OF YET!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:09 pm

Laura "I let it go. It was not worth wasting time and energy holding a grudge over, and I even tried to defend your tendency towards aggressive and disparaging posts by suggesting cultural misunderstanding when Jae confronted you"

Yes, the Neo Marxist/Post Modernist attitude of victim hood and the intolerance to other view points that clash with your bias. Come on. I have come from the left and still hold many viewpoints on the left but classical liberals have been dissecting the stench that is coming from the left AND right at this point in time!
By all means, this crowd has been a product of the Status Quo! Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are a product of everything that is wrong with our culture!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:12 pm

Laura "Contrary to what you gave alleged, based on the written record, I have not insulted nor attacked you personally. On the other hand, you continue to be derisive and condescending to me as well as engage in a sort of delusional thinking where your posts are automatically, without any fact checking, accurate and refute all my or James' claims"

I never said you 'attacked' me. I said you were eager to 'fuck' with my view points and collaborated on such by your own admission

The culture of victim hood among the members here is stunning.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Laura " Again, despite the claims in your most recent posts that we all simply cannot stand the intellectual rigor of your posts, the history of posts is clear that up until Dee's post, no one had insulted you'

Last time I checked, I can read.


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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:21 pm

Laura "So you make it impossible to engage you because you never respond to the actual content of our posts but instead launch into non responsive tangents, distort what's actually said, and then declare victory. It's very disingenuous and frustrating for the people involved on the other side'

Oh really? Well Dee's article which she used as a counter argument to my statement about the UK , provided information that supported my contention.
What do I get as a reply?

That I am a cunt!

Not a word from you or Jae on that! Why? Because that is the culture that is currently prevalent, where people won't listen to opposing view points. It was not me labeling everybody without a science degree not fit for coming to conclusions. As a matter of fact, I often explore territory and ideas or view points that are not inline with my bias, only to come to shocking conclusions how distorted the landscape is coming from ALL sides and how HERD MENTALITY is preventing from REAL action on very important topics.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:26 pm

Laura "Implying that Andrew Wakfield was stripped of his credentials because the Brits don't have free speech, for example, leaves me incredulous.
As I stated last week, despite my desire for the truth to prevail, I also recognize that you have shown no indication of revising or retracting any of your views on the vaccine, or to date, anything we have discussed. To continue to go down this path is a futile endeavour. Further, things appear to be devolving. Therefore, I am withdrawing from participation in this 'exchange."

Now look who has distorted my view on vaccines? My view on vaccines is the same as when my children were vaccinated and who continue to be vaccinated. My view was about OPEN DEBATE WITHOUT LABELING PARENTS or any opposition with real questions and grievances or opinions NOT fit when it is the SCIENCE world in conjunction with the MEDIA that have created the vaccination scare!

Go back and read how I have repeated this now ...HOW MANY TIMES?


Last edited by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:32 pm

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Wed May 02, 2018 6:46 pm
I am not interested in the vaccine debate James. My kids are vaccinated. But I am not willing to dismiss anything that has not been investigated, as the Government officials testified to in front of Congress ( see all the videos from the House floor).

No testing has been done on mercury since the 1920's no testing at all on thermosol.
We know the FDA is corrupt as well.
I am not making claims but having extensive experience with incompetent and dishonest government officials myself, I don't put anything past anybody, regardless who they represent.
Two hearings on the House floor on mercury and thermosol for example! And there are many more on Youtube, without lawmakers getting any answers from FDA or CDC officials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3xdAp9_Zk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlg97GlcKXQ

After all, doctors used to promote smoking, remember?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y_N4u0uRQ

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:35 pm

So what did you do Laura? You changed it into me being against vaccinations! You Laura changed the parameters! I kept repeating how you changed the ISSUE!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:36 pm

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri May 04, 2018 2:40 pm
As for me attacking, when I read the posts addressed to me, some greatly misconstrue my stances and points I am making.

As I said, I am not interested in the vaccination debate because I believe that the tool of Free Speech will let all sides speak and sort it out eventually as we see with the science continuously being geared towards vaccinations and with the question what else could be possibly wrong surrounding vaccinations if it is not for mercury/thermasol claims?

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Fri May 04, 2018 3:03 pm

JAMES "In other words, we don't just sit and stew in the chaos of everyone having their opinion who has a FB page forever, especially with issues where there is provable and incredible evidence to the contrary. People have to learn the skills to evaluate critically (que the Lindsay Sheherd problem) and then learn how to evaluate truth claims. But you are coming off as saying their is legitimacy to the anti-vaccine movement in some way, shape, or form and that we still need to read through each of those FB comments and treat them like special little snowflakes of equally valid opinion pieces? That's actually the post-modernist effect you were earlier decrying"

ME "I think I explained thoroughly why your line of thinking is anti free speech. Under the concept of free speech, everybody's opinion enters the public domain.
You fail to recognize that it is you who has a Post Modern stance here. Not me. I am for Free Speech, not matter how despicable or palatable, or how inaccurate the Speech is!"

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 1:43 pm

So how come Laura, you kept changing the ISSUE I kept addressing? While you did not bother to read or respond to the issues I brought up, you kept arguing the anti vaccination stance.

I am looking at this and am baffled once more! The insults, the claims I am the one insulting when I am being called a cunt because I use Dee's own source to prove my point, the fact the ISSUE of debate is changed and the list goes on.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue May 08, 2018 2:01 pm

I have many other interests in my life than spending more time on this forum at this point. My life is hectic enough. This group is too small and there are too many personal and emotional problems interfering here. I have no desire of being the dumping ground of other peoples victim hood and moods.
I am out of here so I wish you all the best nevertheless.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Dee S on Tue May 08, 2018 4:06 pm

No I shouldn't have called you a cunt. It was wrong and it was very much unlike me. WHICH IS WHY IT WAS REMOVED .. not by me but by our admin and friend. Yet you go on and on and on and on and onnnnnnnnn ad nauseum. Just like you do with your convoluted attempts at rational thought.

It's a word. And I used it for a reason. WORDS HAVE POWER. Yet you don't realize what your use of them does to others.

Oh wait. You're "out of here" ... I doubt that's true. Just don't expect your abusive tendencies to be tolerated when/if you come back.
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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Tue May 08, 2018 10:18 pm

To come back to the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it is a timeless document and its principles STAND today. It is a document that has the SAME roots as Universal Human Rights. Both derived from Natural Rights Law!
What you are talking about is regulating today's technology and preserving our civil liberties which I am convinced we can do!
The Bill of Rights is a document that STANDS for Individual Sovereignty. Individuals are the largest minority around and we as Individuals DESERVE our inalienable rights merely because we exist. If you don't believe in this, you don't believe in gays, black people, transgender people, women etc having a right to their happiness and being left alone from violence and harassment in society!


Yes, run away as you have done every single time in the past (I believe you left the Forum in 2011 because of something Abdul or Reem said about the Palestinian peace process), and prior to that, every time it reached a point where you were backed in a corner, it became everyone else's fault, and you would leave making a singular condescending comment implying that your own life was much harder than everyone else's and that everyone else had psychological or emotional problems, while you alone "were focused on the issues."

I have so much free time on my hands, it's not like I have kids or work 60 hours a week as a classified government contractor. In the end, it is the fact that you imoly your time and your life is so much more valuable and important than everyone else's that incurs so much resentment. I am just finally taking the gloves off and being bllunt. If I did not feel that you were dishing it out too much and needed to hear the truth, I would not waste my time doing so.

And yes, I removed the C-word comment. I don't condone it, and Dee herself has been adult enough to admit she made a mistake and said something in the heat of the moment that she regrets.

You engaged in a strawman argument in your first substantive post and continue to do so to the point where I think you have started to actually believe these distgortions. In August 2017, you had first started posting, and I can continue to pull more.

I would love to hear more about how you are as a person and what the daily battles you face are, and how your real life interacts with all the complex things going on in the world, but you don't ever seem to want to humanize yourself. I asked multiple times about your adding me on FB and even messaged you, and you ignored several emails, so I realized the truth a long time ago that you were not really ever interested nor cared about having an actual friendship with me. And that was okay by me. I accepted it and moved on, pushing you to contribute when you could to our unique internet herd which has survived over a decade.

Definition of strawman argument:


Using a strawman argument is relatively simple, and usually consists of the following three stages:

First, person A states their position.

Then, person B presents a distorted version of person A’s original position, while pretending that there’s no difference between the two versions.

Finally, person B attacks the distorted version of person A’s position, and acts as if this invalidates person A’s original argument.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Tue May 08, 2018 10:45 pm


If we don't recognize having inalienable rights ( as described in the Bill of Rights) how are those non existing inalienable rights to be violated?

You cannot violate something if you acknowledge it does not exist in the first place.

Government does not 'take away' our inalienable rights! They merely 'violate' them!

I as a sovereign individual claim my right to speak my mind. That right does not come from any government!

THAT is what the Bill of Rights is all about! If you disagree, you basically can't have any of your rights violated because you deny its very existence!

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

Post by Admin on Wed May 09, 2018 11:44 am

Laura "At times you appear to be arguing natural law and at other times to are the jumping to an argument about negative versus positive rights in legal theory"

One more thing!

The US Constitution and the BOR are based on Natural Rights law.

Within the US Constitution is a blueprint for positive and negative rights which come from the Legislature.

How can you be confused? All these types of rights exist and are derived from the checks and balances that are described within the US Constitution.

Get you butt back to law school or take a Constitutional course! I understand attorneys are not necessarily experts in all types of law like doctors are not experts in all kinds of medicine.


More insults from last year.

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Re: General Discussion and Updates

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