Legal Theory and Laws

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by laurav on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:25 pm

DutchessMaria wrote:The UK has no free speech. The Netherlands don't have real free speech. Many European countries don't have the degree of freedom of expression the US has.

The US and Canada definitely have most liberal free speech rights in the world, but I would not say the UK has no free speech, but it is less liberal.

Separation of church and state is not a reality in most countries however.

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by laurav on Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:49 am

Let me be clear since I have said a lot. I absolutely believe that the constitution is the law of the land and provides are variety of substantive and procedural rights that should absolutely be enforced, observed, and citizens should be aware of them.

I think the US constitution is laudable in that it does, although we don't do a great job of always maintaining it, provide for freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and separation of church and state. I think those are profoundly important principles that promote the spread of ideas, knowledge, and prevent the encroachment of religion on the government (which was proven to be tantamount to the suppression of freedoms and liberties when it occurred in Europe's bloody battles over the Church).

As citizens we should do everything to ensure that the actions of government accord to the constitution.

I think there is a strong argument that the types of rights enumerated in the constitution can exist within the individual in a pre-law, pre-government state, but not sure if that distinction ultimately matters because force and power ultimately dictate individuality is subsumed in some way or fashion. None of us were born outside the legal system unfortunately. But that is not saying I do not think the individiidual's existence equates with something that we could define in many contexts as 'inalienable rights.'

That I apply pressure to the foundation of these systems to see if they are capable of holding over the long progression of time is entirely different than attacking or advocating against the constitution.

Now, I have to get back to trying to take someone's children away in a custody battle.

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:28 pm

So the question is...


If the idea of individual liberty is not worth fighting for, what idea is?

The idea that all our rights come from government?

I personally believe that idea is really bad because the institution of government has been historically the biggest violator of what we consider human rights. Government and any form of authority, it be Royals , the Church etc.

so basically, what are you going to replace the US Constitution with? Or the concept of inalienable rights?

Jamse? Laura?

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:24 pm

Where are you getting that we want to replace the constitution from?

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by DutchessMaria on Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:36 pm

Even if you don't want to replace the Constitution, what idea supersedes the concept of inalienable rights James?

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Re: Legal Theory and Laws

Post by laurav on Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:31 pm

I think it is a great idea, but as I have stated, ideas are wonderful, I have lots of them, but my concerns enumerated above suggest it may not make much practical difference for us--i.e. we are all born into a very regulated government system, and I don't know if anyone really cares if we argue our rights pre-exist government. I remember you telling me enough times that it stuck, Maria, to paraphrase, that people tend to be complacent and lazy, and we cannot expect much from them on a group level, and the world is a cruel place.

I have next to zero expectations for the American people at this point. So it seems like this is academic.

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